Downtown North Neighborhood Association (DTNNA)

September 18-th Traffic Calming meeting notes

DTNNA > Traffic > Sept_18_Meeting_notes

  1. Version 0.1 -- Original version -- MLL recieved them from Erica MANY THANKS FOR HER LONG HOURS, and did a simple HTML reformat.
  2. Version 0.2 -- I have added formatting and clarification (identified by red itallics) -- MLL


September 18, 2003 -- DTNNA GENERAL NOTES

Regional (sectional) Meetings -- September 24,25

Agenda for this General meeting

      1. Opening
      2. Commitment to be OPEN
      3. Ground rules that help that
      4. Discussion of trial and process
      5. Background traffic calming options
      6. Voting inclusion of arterials
      7. Q and A and comments


Web sites

Down Town North --

Discussion of DTN issues --

Objective of DTNNA meetings


We voted to "clarify" the boundaries of DTNNA. The original motion, that was passed, was to include the arterial streets adjacent to the neghborhood as now included in the OBJECTIVE setcion of the Bylaws:

There were two ammendments proposed to this original motion which were defeated: note Ammendment 1 was proposed first, then 2, but as 2 was an ammendment to 1, it was voted on and defeated before 1 was voted on and defeated. :

As stated, after the ammendments failed , the original motion to include the neigborhood sides of Lytton, Middlefield and Alma -- Passed almost unanimously


These are notes of individual comments (not an expression of will of entire group) (not quantitative)

Josh’s slide show

City of Palo Alto – Website, notes on traffic page


Current structure will be “permanent” until $

Traffic calming measures have evolved over last few years. New things may be better

Possibility of new resigned traffic calming system budgeted if what we have taken out… very little chance

Other neighborhood (college terrace and evergreen) should be reviewed for P/F impact

Fire/Police coments

130 Bryant St. – before cars too fast. Now there are more joggers and walkers. More relaxed and safe. Now it’s wonderful. Poor signage initially caused irritation of drivers. Now better signage.

Talked and police officer doesn’t like it.

Benchmark is < 4 minutes. Average in our neighborhood is 1.5 minutes

Calming isn’t perfect, but feels it is safer. Safety to kids is much more important than 30 seconds of reduced response time

Concern that F/P response will take longer than now

Back to DTN (On Poe) after being gone to Seattle. Loves traffic calming.

235 Emerson – traffic has greatly increased. Object to this after buying house – now street isn’t calm.

Hawthorne / Cowper – supports the traffic calming. Important to check which streets have negative impact.

600 block Everett – prefer preventative protection of the barriers

Everett/Middlefield intersection tremendous quantity of accidents (34) now – no accidents since calming. Seems smoother.

Up to 15 yrs – DTN was calm. Then got very busy with traffic. Now it is very calm.

On Byron between Hawthorn and Everett – cars have greatly increased and are faster. Cars trying to avoid barriers are too fast. 30 seconds does matter to response time for F/P/A

436 P.A. Ave. – law officer says that the # of drunks leaving DTN is reduced

176 Waverly – people are parking in front of barriers that is a concern. Please post location of counters. Can we get those locations identified?

Counters will probably be placed where that had been placed on locations where there are problems

Waverly/Everett – see more people walking to park. Fewer drivers, more bikers

Can redesign posts so that they go down when emergency vehicle goes through?

218 Middle Field – 15 years there. Accidents at Everett have reduced. But speed is a major issue. (Cars have gone up onto sidewalk) can we get light sign telling people how fast they are going?

Modifications to Lytton/Middlefield, please move line up to original place (people don’t know that they can turn right on red so cars back up)

320 Palo Alto Ave – more crime due to police not capturing criminals – that’s an issue

158 Emerson – all the traffic has come here. Family safety is a concern. Please help us regain safety / calm

400 Everett – learning curve for people coming thru. Things are better

453 Hawthorne – trial has moved traffic to Emerson maybe need more barriers

160 Emerson – really bad. Emerson ( Palo alto ( Menlo Park. Lots of traffic on Byron bet Everett and Lytton Middlefield gets backed up. Then come Everett ( Byron – Lytton, also we have to reduce access. Hard to get onto Lytton, can boundaries be re-looked at?

292 Waverly (3 years in neighborhood) noise has significantly reduced. Noticed that increased load on Lytton could flow better too much backup cars, concerned about safety. For calming, not closures. Not equitable to all. Should readdress

488 University – have 4-month-old baby. Yelling at fast drivers. Just passing traffic from one area to another. Agree there is enforcement issue. This is not solving anything. It’s not enough

340 Cowper (here for 3 years) we are in a city. Need something that works or majority and not a few. Accept that you live in a city

223 Cowper – feel that it is better. Visibility problem at intersections. Lytton is safer than Everett and more appropriate for commuter traffic

419 Hawthorne (7 years) – lots of fast cars before. Difficult to get into driveway. Huge reduction in park

284 Waverly (lived there for 30 years) prefers forced traffic lights on the corners of Hawthorne/Everett at Alma and middle field. Car was totaled. Wants traffic lights.

Webster/hawthorn – loves it in spite of inconvenience

101 Waverly – loves the trial, but the bulb out on Everett – too close to Middlefield too narrow needs modification

300 block Cowper (4/5 years) inequitable levels of traffic. Not ok or fair to move the traffic to different, traffic study was done at height of too most aggressive approach, need less aggressive approach to calm all the streets

260 Byron – Bulb outs are a mistake

300 block PA Ave – takes no more time to get in/out and it is safer

Everett/Middlefield intersection was highest accident place, and highest cut-thru in PA, and highest neighborhood counts in PA (2200/day) not being a NIMBI if we get normal levels of traffic

654 Everett – implementation is not equitable. Hard to get out of cars, children in core do not have monopoly on safety, willow has traffic tables – seems to work fine, move the traffic barrier, wants more thought and equality

134 Tasso – getting more traffic and fast speed but still pro, are there increased accidents on Middlefield now

548 Everett ct (also lived on Emerson) better to have stop signs. Didn’t want to live in a gated community

Lytton and Everett on Middlefield – people are confused about new stopping point on Middlefield. Traffic diversion is not traffic calming

101 Waverly (50 years here)

Palo Alto Ave used to be a 200 with traffic, now better, we are a neighborhood

602 Hawthorne – be patient – this is a process. Really like is let’s voice our opinions. Let’s see how things can be modified before throwing out

626 Everett – Alma ( Lytton – too much traffic, too dangerous. Now go to forest in order to come back to DTN. Difference between streets and avenues. Avenues are Wider. Streets are too narrow.

717 Webster – lived

275 Hawthorne – Joe Durand – represent unblock. Not against traffic calming, just diversions. Put new measures more appropriate at same time that barrier is taken out

231 Emerson – this redistributes traffic on to street. Seems that there is less police control, Bryant – too fast – no stop signs because it is a bike corridor, need one, now I do a grand tour of the neighborhood while I zigzag through

213 Emerson (6.5 years) everyone is coming down his street. Hostile drivers, why not 4-way stops on every corner along with traffic table? Lytton is not safe to cross now

228 Waverly – concerned about cut though traffic support calming. How about additional tables and stop signs on the cross streets (Bryant, Emerson, Ramona)?

429 Ruthven (4 years in the neighborhood) Josh Mogal – worried that Ruthven would get too much traffic. Stayed involved. While traffic is a little worse but not that bad. Before trial – problem was the speed on Ruthven after all neighborhood is better. Like the 4-way stops also

267 Bryant – we really need more stop signs in addition to current plan. Especially at Bryant and Everett speed is really bad.

October 11, 2003

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